so on and so forth. â¦Then you said that âwe canât wave our hands and then say and so on, because there is so much more to what it is to be human.â Youâve said that a couple of times. So I am just wanting to ask you: Well, can you tell us some of these morally significant psychological capacities in which you think that human beings, and letâs talk about real ones, so the ones who are âprofoundly mentally retarded,â to use that term, in which they are superior toâ¦you sort of said, maybe chimpanzees and great apes are differentâ¦so letâs say in which they are superior to pigs or dogs or animals of that sort. (Eva Kittay responds by shaking her head.) Itâs a factual question. You canât just shake your head. You have to put up or stop saying that.
Eva Kittay: [Y]ou asked me how is Sesha different from a â what did you say â a pig? And [when I first shook my head] you said, well, itâs a factual question, âput up or shut up.â The first thing I have to do when you ask me that question, is I have to get overâ¦. a feeling of nausea. Itâs not that Iâm not able to answer it intellectually, itâs that I canât even get to the point emotionally, where I can answer that question. (Pause) Most of the time. When I say you canât just wave your hand and say âand so on,â itâs because there is so much to being human. Thereâs the touch, thereâs the feel, thereâs the hug, thereâs the smileâ¦there are so many ways of interacting. I donât think you need philosophy for this. You need a very good writer . â¦This is why I just rejectâ¦[the]â¦idea that you [should] base moral standing on a list of cognitive capacities, or any kind of capacities. Because what it is to be human is not a bundle of capacities. Itâs a way that you are , a way you are in the world, a way you are with another. And I could adore my pig; I could dote on my pig. It would be something entirely different. And if you canât get that; if you canât understand that, then Iâm not sure exactly what it is that you want to hear from that I could tell you. â¦Iâll keep trying because I think this is very important.
Jeff McMahan: Let me say something on behalf of Peterâs [Singerâs] point of view here. Peter has not said anything to deny the significance of a motherâs relations to her own child. Nothing as far as I can tell. The question here is a question about what moral demands there are on other people. And the fact that you, Eva, have a relation with your daughter doesnât necessarily give other people the same set of reasons that you have to respond to your daughter in certain ways and to treat your daughter in certain ways. The question is: what is it about people like your daughter that makes moral demands on other people that nonhuman animals can make on any of us. That is the question that Peter is asking. Heâs not denying that you have a special relation to your daughter and that that is very significant for you in your life, significant for her, and so on, and that thatâs true of many other people. â¦You know, Peter and I didnât come here to hurt anybodyâs feelings. Weâre here to try to understand things better. Iâm trying very hard not to say anything offensive, something hurtful. Iâm profoundly averse to making people miserable.
Eva Kittay: I know youâre not trying to hurt anyoneâs feelings. I know Peter isnât trying to hurt anyoneâs feelings. Thatâs not what itâs about. For me, itâs not what Iâm experiencing, itâs what your writings mean for public policy. Thatâs what concerns me. And thatâs not just about my daughter. 14
Peter Singer and Jeff McMahan have teamed up to defend the rights of animals at the expense of some people. Using intelligence as the criteria for
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